of president lyndon b. johnson's war on poverty. we're joined by michael tanner of the cato institute and melissa botaik with the center of american progress. "washington journal" is next. . host: good morning. this marks the start of old be a busy week here in washington. congress is back tomorrow. at the supreme court, justices will hear a case on the president's right for recess appointment. one of the critics is mitch mcconnell. he is expected to be inside the court. otherssident meets with tomorrow. he traveled to raleigh, north carolina on wednesday. he will deliver his speech on the nsa eve strapping. he announces what changes he

will implement. last fewen much of the weeks reviewing. this weekend marks the 50th anniversary of the surgeon general warning on smoking. a half-century later, your thoughts and how you view the federal government's role in smoking and other health-related issues. that's our question for the first 45 minutes. our phone lines are open. the numbers are on your screen. host: you can also join us on twitter or facebook. or you can send us an e-mail. log on to the department of health and human services, this is what the report looks like 50

years later. commemorating the 50th anniversary on the surgeon general's warning on smoking. dr. terry luther laid the foundation. through the efforts of tobacco control professionals, work has moved forward 50 years later. if you want to look at the statistics released by the department of health and human services, there is this. the smoking rates have fallen 59%. the tobacco industry continues to spend more than eight ileum dollars per year on marketing. more than 3000 kids try there first cigarette every day. a number of editorials also related all of this. we found one on the l.a. times website. a report was released on saturday morning, january 11. the report says there was nothing surprising about the conclusion. throughout the 1950's,

scientists discovered various ways that smoking took a toll on people's health. britain released its own roof port. lobbying by the tobacco's industry -- luther terry convened a panel to make sure that the findings were unimpeachable. companiesat tobacco should rule out anyone that they disapproved of. have a line set aside for those of you who are smokers. is 202-585-3883. has this made a difference? what do you think the role of the federal government is when it comes to smoking and other health-related issues? there is another editorial from the washington post. winning the war against smoking.

a 50 year push against cigarette use continues with higher taxes. the war on smoking can be back. they claim a huge big or he. half the country used to smoke. now, less than 1/5 does. public advocates have done enough. some still smoke away their lives in peace. we disagree. it's time for more taxes, more regulation, and more outrage. that is from 1964. that is an editorial from the washington post today. where you calling from? caller: massachusetts. hi. one percent governor and corporate partnership. this is how governments, through central banks and corporations, infiltrate other governments.

is keeping the american people from finding out what is going on between corporations and governments. it is almost like fascism. host: tom is joining us from michigan. i was thinking of -- city, there was a kiosk on broadway. there was a park with a bench. somebody came up to me in 1994. i did not smoke. someone came up to me and said it is illegal to smoke. this is 1994. the next thing i heard was that they started this whole trend.

it will be nationwide eventually. no smoking in restaurants. the next thing i read in the new york times about the smoking ban -- in restaurants in new york . someone pushed a baby carriage by a bar after the ban was passed. i live in michigan. i spent a lot of time and tobacco states. i cannot smoking go to my favorite bar and have a drink. host: thank you very much. this is one of those classic ads from the 1950's. ronald reagan, then an actor, with this caption. i am sending chesterfield to all my friends. mild messed with no unpleasant aftertaste. chesterfield

cigarettes. democratic line, good morning. evelyn? caller: good morning. host: turn the volume down on your television. we have some feedback. caller: ok. all right. good morning. i am in illinois. i have smoked since 1953. i never inhaled. i now have stopped since october 24. i see it differently. i am on the nicotine patch. with thatlowed you dear dr. from stanford. he called it the golden holocaust.

i will tell you, i feel so much better. i am 82. i hope to live another 10 years. host: let me ask you -- caller: since 2005, there are only one million people in the united day two of stop smoking. also, china is the highest. you keep saying taxes. they tax us in illinois. it is terrible. they go underground and they go to kentucky. they are not going to stop it. i will tell you what. it makes me feel better. thank you for listening to me. host: thank you for the call. scott is joining us from minnesota. welcome. caller: i would just like to say that i think this is another example of corporate disregard for human life. -- hello?

ok. another example of corporate disregard for human life. over profits. -- they knewwn for way before 1964 that cigarette smoke was dangerous. it creates various strains of plants. that is my comment. host: thank you very much. the usa today also writes on the 50th anniversary of the surgeon no other report has had this large of an effect on public health. that is a quote from the director of the center for disease control and prevention. i cannot think of anything else that has come close. there's so much evidence on the harms of smoking. some advocates say the country needs to go much further. your thoughts on all this.

you can see the warning that cancer and heart disease also complicate pregnancy. richard has this on twitter. smoking is dumb. what more needs to be set? next is a call from covington, georgia. welcome. caller: i just wanted to say one thing. help they arehe trying to give. but sometimes you have to look at it a different way. smoking is an addiction. it is an addiction. i appreciate information that is toing forward to let us know work on this addiction. you do not want to wind up with cancer. in america, there are so many things that cause people to want to look for some type of stress reliever.

unfortunately, as long as there are things in her life that cause you to be looking for stress relievers, i ask that people look seriously at it. i still smoke. i gave it up for 14 years. i try to manage my smoking. i try to keep it down to four cigarettes per day. i asked god daily to help me with my addiction. you have to own up to the election. host: how are you doing so far? caller: pretty well. the last thing that the government gave us with the unemployment, i am not employed, that is a strain. i leave that in the hands of god. we have great lawmakers. i know that they will work it out. i like america. i like people. for anyone smoking, remember it is an addiction. do what ever you can to manager cell. -- the that addiction

more information that we get, maybe it came too late. let's just be thankful for the information. there is care there. host: thank you. a look at the front page of a leading newspaper. ariel sharon suffered a stroke in 2006. he has been in a, for the last eight years. he passed away yesterday at the age of 85. joe biden will lead the u.s. delegation for funeral services this week in israel. the front page of the washington post has the swearing-in of virginia's newest governor, bill clinton friend and chair of the democratic national committee, terry mcauliffe takes the reins. divided government is a tradition that we must continue. he was sworn in yesterday in richmond, virginia. one of the aftereffects of the

surgeon general warning was the end of television commercials for cigarettes. and in did in 1971. cigarettes came out with one of the last commercials. [video clip] when you smoke true. you get all the flavor and the filter to. ♪ >> true filter cigarettes. all the flavor you need to say that is a good tasting cigarette. this is the best-selling, best tasting cigarette of its kind. 0.7 mg of nicotine. you get a choice. it comes with or without menthol. anyway you like it. no doubt about it, true gives you everything you want in a cigarette.

it is true. when you smoke true. you get all the flavor and the filter to. ♪ host: that is from true cigarettes. one of the final commercials before they were banned. the surgeon general indicated that online advertising -- they do spend $8 billion per year on advertising, especially targeting younger people. bill is joining us from north carolina. 50 years after the surgeon general warning, your thoughts? caller: one thought i have is the hypocrisy of the government. 1969, the first smoking i ever did was in for little packs of cigarettes. that is why i have never understood. host: thank you very much. from harvard, there is this look

back. it is also available online. they point out that this one individual remembers the report on the cbs evening news. he says i was a first-year medical student. nearly two thirds of my colleagues were smokers. that dropped and the report was a big reason why. that is the editor in harvard health publications. you can read more about his perspective. mike from milwaukee. republican mind. caller: i would like to thank you to serving america in this way. it has been a good benefit all these years. some of my friends smoked, some did not. i never got hooked. this gives an incentive to people who spent seven dollars per name on a namebrand.

the money incentive -- it could go for more. retirement or college for kids. share. host: there is this from one of our viewers -- ascribing an iron patriot. electric cigarettes are the future. no side effects, no secondhand smoke. liberals can't wait to ban them. the washington post has this headline. tainted after a west virginia spill will be damaged for days. several hundred thousand people in nine west virginia counties remain without water today. it is the third day following a chemical spill. water company executives say it could be days before the and contaminated water is flowing again. that is the story from inside the washington post. francis from tennessee, republican line. caller: i think it is ironic

that washington state and colorado have approved marijuana. most of the colors to your program say there is no addiction to marijuana. it is a wonderful thing. i just cannot believe that. here you are still harping on cigarettes. seemingly, giving approval to marijuana being legalized. banse other hand, what or statements are on beer cans? they are addictive. they cause problems. there are children who are mistreated by parents. seemingly, government is not going to say anything about that at all. thank you for listening. host: thank you for the call. steve has this point. from the twitter page, taxes on

cigarettes have created criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. over five dollars per pack. that is almost $2000 per year. another related story from the san francisco chronicle. 50 years ago, ash trays were on every table and desk. athletes, even fred flintstone, enjoyed cigarettes. most hung in the air in restaurants and airplanes. u.s. adults smoked and there was a good chance that your doctor was among smokers. on january 11, when the surgeon general released an authoritative report that said smoking causes illness and death. the government should do something about it. with her terry was a smoker himself. a reference to that flintstone and from the 1950's -- here's what it looked like. [video clip] >> we ought to do something fred. >> how about taking a nap? >> let's take a winston break.

>> that's it. they are the one cigarette that delivers flavor 20 times per pack . >> they make a big taste difference. right where it counts. a pure filter. ,hey pack rich tobacco specially selected and processed for good flavor. >> winston tastes good. like a cigarette should. this has been brought to you by winston, america's best-selling, best tasting filtered cigarette. ♪ winston tastes good, like a cigarette should. ♪ host: something you will not see anymore. that is the 1950's. though flintstones promoting winston cigarettes. many of you are also weighing in

on our facebook page. 50 years after the surgeon general warning on cigarette smoking. elizabeth says the 50th anniversary of the failed war on poverty was more newsworthy. more of your comments are available. you can join in. we have a caller from florida. caller: good morning. cigarettes.moked he is 90 years old. he smoked for relief. host: and? point? she had not. we will go to allyson in texas. independent line. caller: i just want to say that i was going to school back in the 1960's, when they came out with this. anyway, my husband spoke for six years.

he decided that he should probably quit. it was too late. the damage was done. he got cancer of the larynx. he had to have it taken out. i remember that back then, people thought -- they did not believe it. everybody smoked. it took people that you know, that you're close to. people they worked with. when they got lung cancer or throat cancer or died, that scared everybody. i can remember when they came out with these warnings. people who smoke, we spoke to -- smoked two or three packs per day. we thought the government was -- it was a conspiracy. he quit using the patch. the nicotine patch. if he could quit, anybody could quit. i warn people not to wait until it is too late. people who are still smoking need to quit now. host: thanks for the call.

we do have a line set aside for those of you more smokers. 5-3883. 30 minutes left in our conversation. 50 years after the surgeon general warns on quitting smoking. your thoughts? you can also e-mail us or reach us on facebook. more facebook comments. there is this from doug, he says smoke them if you have some. my thought is if you have avoided a warning, it is your fault. not the cigarette companies fault or the environment. 50 years of wasted government resources, forcing cigarette companies to produce a statement that is obvious. and something we discussed a few days ago. the program "mad men."

was it really like that? yes, it was. barbara joins us from new haven, connecticut. caller: hello. good morning. thank you for taking my call. --ould like to comment on they have programs for people who are getting illegal drugs to help them quit. smoking is an addiction. it may not be illegal, but it is an addiction. with all of the millions of dollars, being spent toward advertisements, saying do not smoke, it is better for your health. it is an addiction. government the should take that money that they're using and tell people not to smoke. that will not work.

that is like telling an addict not to do drugs. there were programs put in place, help them to get off of cigarette smoking. i want to make one more comment. and 40's, in the 30's chemicals were not added. is, with theseed chemicals that are being added now, the person is more addicted. the government should put in place programs to help smokers. outpatient status or inpatient to help with the smoking. host: thanks. the cdc also has a new study on the trend in smoking. from the 1980's to where we are today. there has been a steady decline in smoking among students and adults. young people tend to be those

who smoke early. -- the studyd to focused unknown people. they're looking at a way to prevent young people from getting addict did. barbara is joining us from new haven, connecticut. caller: thank you. host: thank you. let's go to jamestown, south carolina. are you with us danny? caller: yes, sir. i have smoked for 28 years. i have raised three children. none of them were born with any health complications. you can tax the cigarette company all you want. all the government is going to do with that tax's feet obesity. that is the biggest problem in america. not smoking. one viewer, called

appellation -- appalachian vulcan says the offspring of those affected by commercials are smokers by association. one man says he smoked up to six packs of cigarettes per day. he had one long removed. the cancer came back in the 1970's. he issued this public service announcement. [video clip] finishing my 199th picture and never felt better in my life. i said i was going out of my boat. then i got nagged into going to a medical checkup. they found a spot on the x-ray. it was lung cancer. if i had waited a few more weeks, i would not be here now. that is me seven years after surgery. in "true grit." i got a check up.

why don't all of you do yourselves a favor? get a check up. talk someone you like and to getting a check up. you love into getting a check up. while you're at it, send a check to the american cancer society too. it is great to be alive. host: that is from 1972. john wayne passed away in 1979 from blood cancer. there were other complications from his heavy smoking addiction and the 1950's and 1960's. if you are just tuning in or joining us on c-span radio, we are focusing on the surgeon general report on smoking. 50 years later. on the facebook page, many of you are also weighing in. when user says that the tobacco industry used to pay docked oeste say that smoking was not

harmful. they convince people of a phony controversy and delayed action. smoked fourfather packs a day and died a few years ago at 100. my sister died at 50 from cancer and what they health net. how can you explain that? mary is joining us from maryland. good morning. caller: i want to tell everyone about the danger of smoking. i am allergic to the smoke. it can come through lungs and skin. in your house and your car. it is an awful smell. when some people breed, you can just smell the smoke from their lungs. it is awful. odorave to look at the part of it. most people who smoke cigarettes, i noticed they are poor and cigarettes are very

expensive. i have people calculate how much they spend on cigarettes. they are shocked at the amount of money that they spend. host: thank you for the call. next up is scott from california. good morning. caller: thank you. i was one of the last of the smokers. i was a chain smoker. host: how much did you smoke? how many packs per day? caller: two packs a day for 20 years. when i grew up, everybody smoked. the way i quit, i quit cold turkey. i walked through the front door and i told my loved ones that i am a non-smoker. i made a commitment and i have not had a cigarette cents. thank you. host: thank you.

from cq weekly, a look at the senate and the way that congress is or is not working very it is called the law of rules. they write that one major change, such as the filibuster, will give rise to others. obstruction is in proceedings. this is from today's before mitch mcconnell, still smoldering from the filibuster change, took to the floor. the democrats want to extend unemployment benefits without consideration. this is a midterm election year. is house and senate control at stake. particularly in the senate. recast filibuster toe forces the minority delay legislation.

next is donald from rhode island. good morning. are you with us? caller: yes. that, ianted to say started smoking at a young age. we all thought it was cool. i have two boys now. they are two and four years old. it is an awful feeling to continue to smoke today. if i could say anything, it would be do not start. absolutely do not start. i will leave a comment. host: thank you for that call. next is maurice from akron, ohio. caller: good morning. one observation that i have about smoking, our population has grown. percentage, we may have gone down. the number of smokers is still pretty high.

thatollowing point is smoking is growing like crazy. we do not have the rules worldwide that we do in the states. every man, woman, and child smokes. tobacco companies make plenty of money worldwide. they are not missing the american smoker. host: thank you very much for the call. in case you missed it, time magazine out with the $16 trillion woman. a preview of what to expect with janet yellen. her first interview with time magazine. she grew up in brooklyn and was confirmed by the senate to replace ben bernanke. she will take over at the end of this month. in the washington post, the story. governor cuomo prepares for limited use of marijuana in new york. medical marijuana initiatives do frustrate some advocates.

you could read more online. audrey is joining us from macon, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is on smoking. i started at a young age. no one ever forced me. it was a choice that i made. it is a choice that we all make great i have worked in the industry. i made up my mind three months before my daughter turned 21. i was going to quit smoking on her 21st birthday. for those three months, i chain-smoked. one right behind another. day, she turned 21, i have not smoked since. host: do you miss it? caller: no, but i enjoyed everyone that i lit up. it was not something that was forced on me. it was a choice that i made. we all make these choices and we know that they are not healthy. host: what about the surgeon

general warning? do you think it has made a difference? caller: no, we still make our own choices. you can tell me to stand out in the middle of the street and a car will hit me, but it is my choice. host: ok. thank you for the call. we will come back to more of your calls and comments on this anniversary. "newsmakers"nder, will follow us at 10:00. we will discuss the latest with chris christie and the new book out by bob gates. he stepped down in 2011. it is titled "duty." here's a portion of the interview were he talks about the timing of the release. [video clip] >> i think, frankly, secretary gates would have been well disposed to wait to write this biography until the

administration is over so it did not with political in nature. i do not think it probably was. secretary gates was very positive about the president to me and to others. in private and in public. as was appropriate. i was disappointed that, at this point in time, he would make some of the observations he made. several i do not agree with. he was very negative on vice president biden. i thought that was incorrect on fact and unfortunate because i vice president biden has been a very positive partner with the obama administration. host: we hope you tune in. that will be with steny hoyer of maryland. he will join us at 10:00 eastern. fax your calls and comments.

50 years after the surgeon general warning on cigarette smoking. from facebook, two comments. steve says it is not good for one's health. up until the 1980's, many families depended on the income to survive. many would have starved to death if they had not had that crop. eric says it is a vile habit. it is worse than smoking pot. we should incarcerate cigarette smokers. you can join in at facebook.com. mark is joining us from new york. good morning. caller: longtime viewer. first-time caller. great show and great subject. i think that smoking -- i have been smoking for about 20 years. i have to pack a day. i have become reflective in thinking that coming back to some of the clips you have shown

with actors smoking cigarettes and films of soldiers in battle with lighters -- i was thinking product placement and marketing of cigarettes in this country has been specular. it has a long history. respect to the actual decline, you do not see it anymore in print. you do not see commercials in movies anymore. or in cartoons. you see less and less in print media. with respect to the actual waistband of cigarettes, i am convinced that it starts early. the cigarette company, it is no accident that cigarette companies or run-of-the-mill drugstores -- you have cigarettes that are located very close to the candy rack.

that is the biggest observation that i would like to make. you have a child looking at a counter, they see candy and they look up and see cigarettes. host: thank you for the call. if you want to smoke, so be it. everybody knows how dangerous it is without wasteful taxation and spending. debbie says why don't they spend more time on people who drink and get drunk. tommy says it is almost surprising to see someone in public mugging today. and merrily says let my people go smoke. it is worse than prohibition. chuck says it is a waste of resources. smoking this point -- is the hardest habit i have ever broken. i quit nine years ago after many failed efforts. ofthe weekend of the release

this report, cbs news has this report on what it meant for supporters. this is about one minute. the audio is not terrific. with that you might find it of interest. [video clip] >> this is a cbs news extra on smoking and health. the findings of a surgeon general committee. in our studio this afternoon, following the surgeon general's news conference, richard will have questions with the leading spokesman for the industry. the president of the tobacco merchants association. mr. coleman is prominent in the new york theater and civic affairs. he is a third-generation of the tobacco family. the conclusions are pretty stark and pretty solid. they say quite flatly that cigarette smoking contributes substantially to mortality and disease.

they have a rate 10 times of high for lung cancer. >> i do not believe that most people who smoke get lung cancer. we are now in an era of moderation. we more carefully and we have careful habits. --have junking habit drinking habits. we have smoking habits. surprised at the beginning of the conference when dr. terry said that they have little evidence on the effect of having a cigarette. americans, 60% of compared to three percent years ago. we need more research. of 1964, thatuary

is a cbs news report looking at the dangers of smoking. the other perspective on the smoking industry. we have a few more minutes for your calls and comments. there is also an editorial from the washington post, saying that the war on smoking has worked. also, the federal government should look at additional taxes to further reduce smoking in this country. thatf our viewers says they should have marshaled the resources -- mike says the government does not want to many people to quit smoking. how will they taken the taxes? they are just as bad as cigarette companies. lorraine is joining us from michigan. democratic line. good morning. caller: i just want you to know that last april, i was diagnosed with lung cancer. it has been very bad. i am sitting here without any air.

if you people out there want to keep smoking, go ahead. i will tell you, it is the worst mistake i ever made. i did quit and i am glad i quit. it is addictive. it is very addictive. host: when did you begin smoking? how old were you? caller: 15 years old. i am 54 now. host: why did you start? caller: older brother. he offered me one. that is how it all began. i regret it -- i will always regret it. people sincelot of i have been going to the doctors. i just look at them and i cannot believe how many of us there are. host: what was your initial reaction when you heard this report? caller: i wanted to know if i was going to die. i needed to know.

i didn't want to know, but i needed to know. i just change. that was the day i quit smoking. host: how are you doing today? caller: really good. and are lose your hair told you have cancer, you both are radiation. i cannot see a cigarette being worth it. host: thank you for the call. good luck to you. we have a few more minutes. this is from one of our viewers who sent us an e-mail. if cigarette smoking is so deadly, why hasn't not been declared illegal, just like drugs? could tax money have something to do with the decision? the hypocrisy and double standard. emme from mckinney, texas. good morning. caller: my comment is that i smoked and have for 15 years.

since i was 15. i am 46. the government does not have the right to tell me or anybody what to do with my body. more important innings that the government should be worried about. --, the internet -- health care, the internet is terrible for children. the government should not make us. they get all of the say. brain to make choices. those are our choices. if we make about joys, there are consequences. like that is my choice.

i should not smoke. i have asthma. but i smoked. it is wrong. but i do it. my husband hates it. host: are you worried about your own health? caller: and i worried about it? no. i am now or at about it. i believe in the lord. i believe that when it is my time, it will be my time. i will enjoy my life. i am not going to worry about every day what i eat. we have so many obesity people that are dying from overeating. that is a disease. that is the habit. there are a zillion things. the government needs to spend money on important things, like people living under bridges without food. that is important. host: thanks for the call.

the cover story of the weekly standard focuses on al qaeda. the rise in iraq. they are not on the run. there is a new look at the book "duty" by bob gates. that is one of the issues that we will talk about an hour roundtable in a moment. brian, the last word on this from west virginia. caller: good morning. they give for taking my call. i am 57 years old and smoked for 36 years. i quit for three years. i put on 50 pounds. i started smoking about a year ago and knocked off 45 of those towns. i will quit again. it is a choice. think -- i think addiction is mostly in the mind, not the body. sense can and good

tell you when you're feeling bad. i do not think that the government should be telling us what we can and cannot do. the amount of money that they do spend on things, they could probably cut in half and do some good research on what it is. make it available. everybody should make the choice themselves. host: thank you for the call. dean has this point. nicotine is proven to shrink blood vessels in the brain. it is not good. if you are interested, you can read the full report on the department of health and human services website. if the years after the surgeon general issued the warning about smoking. in 1971, the end of television commercials. $8 billion are spent to date to of tobacco bye

americans. that has dropped significantly. when we come back, we turn our attention to the week in politics. the latest was chris christie and a look ahead to midterm politics. also, a look at the president as he delivers his speech on the nsa. cardonaen and maria will join us in just a minute. first, look at the other sunday morning programs. what will be discussed and a chance to see them on c-span radio. we're keeping track of the topics. good morning. >> good morning. and today is sunday tv talk topics will be covered including chris christie and the traffic jam investigation. the congressional agenda, the 2014 midterm elections, also the 50th anniversary of lbj's war on poverty. you can hear rebroadcast on

c-span radio at noon. the democratic mayor of baltimore, and former congresswoman jane harman of california. she is the president and ceo of the woodrow wilson center. at 1:00, new york mayor rudy giuliani. illinois, david plouffe, and also judy smith. include james in half and ben cardin. with00, state of union john mccain and martin o'malley. at 4:00, face the nation with florida republican senator marco rubio and maryland democratic congressman elijah cummings. new jersey assemblyman also.

young c-span radio and brought to you as a public service by the networks and c-span. three broadcast will begin at noon eastern with "meet the press." " fox news sunday." you can listen to them all on c-span radio. 90.1 fm in the washington area. across the country, you can find us on channel 120. download our free app on the smartphone. or go online at c-span.org. >> i think that there is a way in which we have set up this impossible series of expectations. especially for president. for elected officials us our whole, the state will come in and save the day. one it does not happen, we give

congress a 90% approval rating and the president a 30% approval rating. the expectations have to be lowered. that is part of what is really quite amazing about the american founding. it is not that the founders themselves that do not expect much from government. it is that government it will not be the main driver of our liberty. it will be civil society. the federal government exists to do certain things. it better do them well. if it is not, nothing else will be properly situated. the main area of activity is going to be in the private sphere. the civil society. in the election of local officers, the carrying out of duties at the local and state level. even in that, there is a measure of modesty. of recognizing that it is not possible for people from washington to run a nation of 310 million people. >> david bobb on humility,

tonight on c-span's "q&a." >> the deadline is approaching for our student video competition, open to the high school students. what is the most important issue that congress should address? send a-seven minute documentary. there's $100,000 in total prizes. entries are due by january 20. get more info at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. is a maria cardona political commentator on cnn. welcome back. also rich, thank you for being with us. let's begin with a couple of headlines. there is this from politico, tying in bob mcdonnell to as christie. the gop's tarnished golden boys.

they point out that a cloud hangs over both republicans. bob mcdonnell faces a greater situation as he left office yesterday. the washington post says that they muddled search for a gop scandal hase bridge engulfed chris christie and brought more disruption to the already muddled republican search for a 2016 nominee. guest: it is, we are talking about 2016. we have barely creeps into 2014. we have a long way to go. in 2007, the last time hillary clinton was the nominee two years away, a funny thing and the between then 20th of january. the notion that this stuff should be settled is silly. it is other hand, probably good to have somebody leading the charge. i have not a chris christie fan.

non-fan. not a theuse he is worth he is on continuum, he does not have anyone guarding his flanks. nobody on the left and nobody on the right wants to help. he is out there by himself. it is a difficult political situation. bet: the rnc chair will talking about this. he will be defending him and republicans. what would you expect to hear? guest: i think you'll say the republicans are better for the country the democrats. one of the problems that i have with my party is that we have become the party of no. i have been insisting among my friends in the house that they come up with reasonable alternatives. they just have not been able to do that. i will stop here. the issue i have with

republicans, at least congressional republicans, is that if they want the country to one, them with article they have to show some actual concrete plans moving forward. host: this headline from the huffington post -- chris christie could be impeached. that is if he knew about what was happening. there's also this from the new jersey ledger -- guest: that is typical. host: pointing out more subpoenas. guest: there is no question that this is not the end. we have barely scratched the surface. that is the problem. right now, there is nothing tying him to what happened personally. the big problem here, which we see pointed out in many of the

articles that we are seeing written about him, is what was it about him that created this culture among his advisers? we have been principles to very high officeholders. the closest advisors, the inner circle, normally reflects the values. staff toeputy chief of have thought that it was ok to do this, in such a brazen manner, to have e-mailed the way that she did, ordering the traffic lanes to be shut down -- how does one person do it by themselves? that is another question. if you look at his press conference, he painted himself , buts the buck stops here as i was blindsided and humiliated. like a victim. with the not coincide

kind of image he himself has worked so hard to project. lots of questions there. it does not mean he will be tied to this. it reflects his leadership style in terms of that brazenness. a lot of people love it, but a lot of people criticize it. i think he has issues. guest: let me just tell. -- help. the question is not such as leadership style. everything you said would be correct. guest: maybe people do not want the kind of new jersey -- that is the problem. guest: that is quite profitable that's possible. -- possible. everyone will figure that out. host: before the story unfolded, we talked but how would play out. this is from the new york times. the i and christie storm.

post, theashington new jersey narcissist, pointing out that he used the word "i" 692 times. i will get your response. times. -- his greatest obstacles are his own self regard and his blindness to the idea that he may have erred. he spoke more about himself than that romney. guest: chris christie is chris christie. you'll like him or not like him. he makes that clear. i guarantee that where he would play well is against south carolina. if you one ugly politics, that is the heartland.

after they kill somebody dead politically, they look over and say he did not have to run. the problem is, in terms of presidential, voters want to know that you're doing this for them. he is all about him. one of the biggest problems that for 120 days, he knew that this was swirling around. what does he do when this was first brought up? he joked about it. he mocked it and laughed about it. focus on trying to figure out what really happened. he knew that two of his closest advisors were connected to the port authority and resigned. it you are a principal, don't you think that would be strange? try to figure out what happened there. that questioning, in terms of the periodic they about what really happened, especially around an issue that really hurt his own borders -- that really

hurts him. it gives an image of a commander in chief or executive who doesn't care. guest: two things -- -- the other thing about -- that i thought was interesting, having been through this over the summer luba, that even when he pointed out that he talked to andyhief of staff, admitted she said she liked to go with that is as far as he went. lied to him, she said that is as far as he went. see,anted to be able to the only thing i asked her was did july, and she said yes.

i think that comes from being a u.s. attorney. plausible deniability. host: is he a bully? everybody in the country who engages in politics knows that. on the other hand but that is very different than saying someone is a bully. discussion -- did heated discussions and arguments with people in my own party and on the other side of the aisle. i have passion for issues, i do not hide my emotions from people. group tested,s low drag candidate. i'm a governor. that has always made people

uneasy. some people like that, some people don't. the question is are you willing to change your style to appeal to a broader audience, and i said no. i am who i am, but i'm not a bully. oft: there are a lot appearances to richard nixon's i am not a group of and bill clinton's i did not have sex with that woman. this is going to go back on him? guest: one of the principal things we tried to change aaa crisis was do not repeat the charge. he did well until the last four words, and that is what everyone picked up on. he is the betting -- betting the ranch on being himself. i don't think this thing is going to have an impact on the total arc of the election. morning's "the new york times"

there was not a news story about this in the entire thing. issue, it here is the do not think you really had a chance of make -- he really had a chance of making it through the republican primary. scandal, and those four words that you talked about, are going to be an ad from one of his conservative rivals, along with the hugging president obama. i thought he was done before, this is going to make it that much harder. dumb -- in win is a a democratic state is -- that willther thing make it very difficult, he is completely alone. in new jersey, democrats voted for him, they're not going to vote for him at any time during a presidential. they are going to abandon him,

the right is going to abandon him, he is all alone. the "bostons globe." a big factor is alienation on snooping. we learned over the weekend that the white house administration healthcare.gov. we will hear from the president, a major speech on friday. guest: this is no question that that this is hurt -- that this has hurt him. he was at this level of pulling polling the year before he was elected. this president is very good about bouncing back ray quickly about the issues.

he does that by facing issues head on. one of the things we're going to see and talk about during the nsa speech that he is going to give is that he is going to take a look at what the issue is to what the challenges are. he said for the very beginning, when all of this came out, that there is a military -- a very delicate balance between privacy and security. the majority of americans believe him. and agree with him, frankly, especially after 9/11. this whole nsa issue has been there has been loud critics all the right to critics on the left, and the progressives hate this, but mainstream america has dealt with this with a collective shrug, because they understand that they would rather error on the side of providing security so something like 9/11 could

never happen again, and having to give up a little privacy. what this president will outline is what will that look like? he will be more transparent about what they're doing. i think the american people can handle the truth. host: we will be covering the washing -- the president's beach c-re on c-span about life -- span, live. guest: let me just say something the nsa thing, i think it is generational. people my age, what are they going to find out about me? latee that are in their 20's, early 30's, especially in , thatnments we are in they can be looking down the road and knowing that there is

some guy out there that has been listening in on their phone -- since theylast were called, that is very unnerving to them. it is largely generational, which would account for that drop in young people support. what i said earlier is exactly right, if the washington-based republican party would begin offering up solutions instead of just either voting for things they know in the house are not going to get through the senate, or get the senate floor, just she will we voted for, i think that that number would reverse itself pretty quickly. there is no gigantic mood -- move toward the avocado party as an identification either. hostguest: they have done a lotn their own to alienate people. here are our phone lines.

where is the smoker line? host: do either of you smoke? i did, but i quit 1980. i quit because i was going to die. i go to -- could go through a carton of cigarettes into or two and a half days. he started smoking in the morning, and you kept going until then at night. the 50thr thoughts on anniversary of the surgeon general's warning? ofst: i think this care as last year, i think they had a positive impact. something else to say you

may live, but this is what you're going to look like. guest: i think that is very generational, because in 1980, and even before that, it was cool as smoke, now among people, it is that you are looked at as a pariah. host: let's talk about control of the senate because about half eats couldet -- s determine whether or not the republicans get back into all of the senate, but according to this latest poll there is only about three true tossup senate races. there are others living -- who leanen these either republican or democrat.

guest: i think the people that watch this program, and will watch later on this morning with a know where they are committed to with that what they arenow going to do, they're committed to where they are. get --democrats find can .ind candidates like we had guest: or if republicans cannot help themselves but putting their foot in their ballots -- in their mouths on reproductive issues and other things. i think rich is much more realistic. i've heard republicans talk about this, almost giddy janet -- in terms of their chances of turned -- taking over the senate

and. . you cannot take anything for granted, but i guarantee you after they changed the senate rules, they're going to do everything they can in order to keep the senate. and i think the trajectory for the affordable care act is hoping them in that. we have more than 6 million people signed up for it, enrolled if you can't medicaid piece. count the medicaid pie ce. the more that republicans have this attitude, the more borders sayoters are going to this is relevant to me, i signed up for this. whether obamacare is

going to be a plus or he might as side, i am willing to bet. time democratic supporter, and supporter of later reprinted -- supporter of hillary clinton. do you think she will run? guest: this is a very critical decision for her, and a top one. she left public office on a high .ote her numbers are very good right now, and everyone wants to hear from here. chiming in andt focusing on the issues that she cares about. i do think that you will probably have to decide next year. we will see the way things go. you already see people that are giddy about a campaign, a hillary clinton campaign, nec both sides tearing up at preparing for the possibility of

her running. i think from the standpoint of somebody who has to quickly decide to put together a campaign, that is not her. she has the luxury of really waiting and waiting whether this is something that is good for her personally, whether it is good for the country. sheonally, i hope that runs, because i think it will be historic. i think that she will be a fantastic resident -- resident. president. former executive or of thec, spent time with bush administration. as you look at the situation unfolding in iraq, what stands out to you? guest: i wish it had turned out differently. we went in there for the right reasons, at least with the information we had at the time.

-- overn in remodeling there many times. i've the piece of hell on my desk that did not guilty -- s hrapnel on my desk that did not kill me. there are a number of people that are still tribal in their nature, and it is very difficult to impose a mac or see on top of that. -- democracy on top of that. a lot of americans have gotten hurt, and a lot of iraqis have gotten hurt. democrats,ine for good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. are you with us? caller: good morning.

i'm calling to say that i perhaps the governor did know about the events that were taking place. i don't think he meant it to go that far. christie?s we have to take him at his word, unless somebody can give up with -- can come up with a document or phone call that says otherwise. geraldine, from robbins, illinois. caller: good morning. get through, tour the volume down, that delays us a little bit. ,aller: it is more of a comment

the lady was speaking about the culture. one thing, a lot of times attitude affects leadership. if these guys were able to hold this escapade off, it had to come from somewhere. i'm not saying that christie told them to do it, but once again, attitude reflects leadership. guy really quick, this should not be running for president of the united states. a lot of people think that we are ready joke -- we are a joke already. guest: i think she really underscores one of the biggest rubbles workers to google which i mentioned earlier. creating this culture. biggestf the problems for christie which i mentioned earlier.

these are not satellite offices of the government that went rogue. this was his and her circle. veryis something that is disturbing commodity that is one of the things that is going to continue to dog him as this unfolds. at one point governor christie use the word vendetta. i tweeted that new jersey is the only political position in the country where the government could use the data in any context at not have reporters should off the ceiling. guest: you have become a caricature. bullying, wretched tradition -- retribution. he is not exactly a sweetie pie. host: the washington post describes terry mcauliffe as exuberant and best friend bill

clinton in attendance for the seven -- ceremony. "the new york times" out that they were there. guest: i think it was very smart of him to get the blessing for clintons to do just that. ofs he has a gift essentially bringing people together. you would not have known that because he was such a diehard partisan, and such a clinton supporter. he also had a brief -- a vision for virginia, and what we are seeing is that he is winning over skeptics, ringing people to his side. -- ringing people to his side. people to his

side. start outgreat way to on the right foot. out with atarted huge lead, and hot on against a very forward opponent. he hung on by his fingernails to win. he goes back to the age-old question what it'd just -- it just shows how smart the clintons are. to show upough sense because it would generate national coverage, that nobody if theyve cared much had not been there. -- doember bob mcdonnell you remember bob mcdonnell being sworn in? of course not.

they know when to step forward into the spotlight, and went to fall back. i give them high marks for that. in terms of sticking with their friends, i give them high marks. caller: good morning. i've to say that i'm just amazed by the coverage on this chris christie. they talk about the tone. it seems like everything exploded, and everybody is on him. it where is the liberal movie when it came to all of the coverage on irs, and nsa, and all the other candles in the obama white house? -- scandals in the obama white house? president about obama, it is told to and his administration with that arabic and feel that they can do they things they did? you have the meeting at the white house 150 times. he could tell me that president

obama did not know anything about that? the media is biased. the suggest another example of it -- this is just another example of it. guest: it is a good issue to discuss. the liberal media, the conservative media, the mainstream data, hammered the president over the irs scandal. let's not pretend that this was not covert, because it was covered extensively from front pages for a very long time. the people who are surrounding him and setting the tone. we are talking about a distant satellite office in cincinnati that came up with this plan. absolutely nobody around president obama plus inner circle, and reports have shown that nobody at the white house had anything to do with this, and had any knowledge of what was going on. by the way, it also ended up

being i bar partisan -- a bipartisan targeting as we're now seeing. both liberals and conservatives are being argued by the irs. that they wered being targeted. it was a made-up scandal. the reports, and the investigations have really -- guest: it was not a made-up scandal, they just appointed an outside get to -- counsel to dig troll of it -- to take control of it. guest: good. guy, andey appointed a obama donor. hadimagine if george bush appointed a lead donor to be an investigator in this? yikes. what the caller is saying

is these mystical, magical visits every other day by the irs, they were blocks away. earlier,oint of somebody was sending the tone in the white house. apples ands such oranges, and for publicans to have to go there, it underscores the trouble that christie is in. let's talk about how they reacted to it. when this came out, president obama did a press conference today is afterward. and then five days afterward, ended 10 days -- and then 10 days afterward. and chris christie took 120 days to get to a press conference. guest: the president?

guest: the president came out and talked about it two days after the report. you know what he did? he laughed about it, he mocked it, and he was calling the critics ridiculous. big difference in how the things are handled. we are going to have to get down to the weeds here. for 18with the press hours. guest: buddy took him 120 days -- what it took him 120 days. the president came out as it is there were reports. traffic jamhe happened. we are getting a lot of

tweets that same we want to be able to hear both sides of you. i would've put another issue on the table. happening inis alabama and being duplicated in other states around the country. people who want to see policies enacted and see things tried are removing their activity from washington. there is a sense that you could think -- get things done in the state. guest: i do a lot of work for a guy named t boone pickens, of the pickens plan, into natural gas. we made a decision to move the operations away from congress to

the various state governments, because that is where you can actually get to people that make things happen. host: what are you doing? guest: we are helping governors and their appointees understand that natural gas is enormously -- there's no perfect fuel, but given a choice between importing oil to make gasoline to and using domestically produced out of gas which is cleaner, cheaper, and all of the other stuff, that we could not get the congress to move at all. we have been relatively successful in getting states to compact,a contact -- that they will issue orders to buy heavy trucks, and state vehicles that will be likely to use natural gas as their fuel. our hope is that will run across the country. -- i think that

people have sensed that, that prices are so stuck that you cannot get anything done. they are moving their activities from capitol hill to the executive branch offices because they are still having people that are connected there. guest: there is this effort by this group called alec about which is focusing on state legislatures. because backfired, we're now seeing that that was where the origin of the stand aws was.und l lawsrigin of the voter id that disenfranchised voters. voteruld have a big backlash if they see that instead of corporations, or right wing conservatives, or gon liberal groups trying to

to capitol hill, they're going to the states to try to get their agendas to work. you to be careful of how that is talked about, and how it is that it limited -- how it is and implemented. lines. our caller: you guys are having a pretty good food fight, but i have a question. the policy that bill clinton putting place -- what in place, he cut social programs, don't ask, don't talk about all of that. review the public strategies of ronald reagan. the question i would like to ask both of these were

white residents, reagan won in a landslide. 10 -- nine out of 10 of voters were white. thatid democrats think illegal in can -- hillary clinton can win the presidency? always the blood of the bout hispanics, but the blacks are the ones that turned the alleged to -- turned the election. we came out in the higher percentages of any group. she has not done anything for us democrats. good: he brings of a very point, which is the importance of minority votes for the democratic candidates. i guarantee you that if hillary clinton is the candidate, that she will do everything that she can, as she has done throughout her political life, and her

political career, to get the support of the american voters, of latinos, of women, of the lgbt community. that has always been a focus of the democrats because they thatt win that -- without percentage of voters. barack obama got the lowest percentage of white voters, and that is because this is what we're moving toward, and he represents the face of america today. democratic candidate can win without the majority of african- american voters. the big question is, what are republicans doing to try to garner more of those minority votes? we side big reimaging after mitt romney lost in a landslide because they know that they can get to the white house without

-- cannot get to the white house without additional african- american votes. interestedvery to see what they have to say. mariaoba -- is a blogger. is as well.en guest: something triggered that. this did not come out of the sky. if i had to bet, i would bet that the we went to the mayor of fort lee, just to feel about going to see if they could get a

democratic endorsement for the governor, and he got a bunch of democratic endorsements. it is probably ugly to the men entered the whole thing, because again, this is new jersey. when i was in the fourth grade, i can mobile phone number for storks, and -- a team of with my of my first jokes, and fourth-grade joke was what car did george washington d rive? the answer was a hudson. i got a stern talking to from my teacher. i realized what i wanted to do with my life. i wanted to be howard morman. [laughter] host: i'm not going to even respond to that. we will leave it there.

if the dnc is a nearby the level of hypocrisy you have -- guest: i am not on the dnc payroll. caller: you said the american ready for new jersey style politics. let's talk about chicago style politics because i've discovered the difference between the two. all of the scandals obama has, all of those people involved, still have their jobs. none of them got fired. guest: as anyone can implicated -- has anyone been implicated in a french prison scandal? -- retribution scandal?

apples and oranges. they have been litigated, they have been covered, they've investigated by the hill and other investigated, by the press, and nothing has come to sort of terms of any cover-up, of any sort of issue having to do with his inner circle. republicans have to go to the comparison of president obama and difficult issues against it -- he has had to deal with this year underscores what a big problem chris christie is facing right now. chris christie is in a lot of trouble. host: independent line, thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. well, when i was going to talk about has been talked on several times. interject aike to few things.

statesple of the united are watching all of these things a lot more closely than what you might take. -- think. there very aware that majority of people in washington dc are rich, and have nothing to worry about no matter what happens. thinke one thing that i that washington dc is ignorant of his the united states is really no longer the united states. but thee still america, united states is being dismantled from the inside out. we are literally being took apart. all -- that is all i have to say. guest: i don't know what that means.

i lived in dallas for a long time, and it pretty -- i am pretty familiar with the way texas thinks. i went to a lecture by dan rather in the mid-1990's. he talked about being of the texas soil. aboutnot think that way new jersey, but texans see the world differently. they really do believe it, and they think that the world would be better if it all look like access -- texas. guest: i'm going to take a moment to talk about the issue that president obama says is the defining issue of our time. that is going to be the coming fight this year. this morning, there was a wonderful report that maria shriver has put out called the shriver report. host: she will be presenting it

in washington this week. guest: it talks about how one in three women, 42 million women, and 28 million children live in the brink of poverty. poverty, the way that it looks today, very different than what was 50 years ago when her father, sargent shriver was wet as head of the war on poverty. by the way, those very effective in taking people out of it. the face of that are pretty are low income women and children. -- poverty are low income women and children. we need to make sure that the women that are the engines of our economic growth, and the children, are put in a position where the american dream is not being taken away from them. --re are ever graphic as well.ic differences minority women are the hardest hit, and they believe that the

government needs to be a partner in the type of short -- structures and changes that need to be taking place in the work force. focus oncies that single-family households, more policies that focus on the changing family today. -- more policies that focus on job training, and the ability to give these women education. my hope is that republicans will work with is on trying to figure out what those policies are. not progressive policies, they are not liberal policy for they should be american policies that should uphold our greatest asset, women and children. this has not changed over the last year and a half. the single biggest determinant of unlimited level of education. it is a straight line from people over 25, without a high school degree, are likely to

have well .1% unemployment -- 12 .1% unemployment. a professional degree, their unemployment is about two percent. we need to keep going back up the food chain, and fix the root of this. why people are dropping out. guest: i lot of these women regret having not reorganize their education more. and interestingly enough, g ing married, and being happy when they were able to get a divorce. what policies can we put in place so we can support these women and children? host: we're going to focus on the war on poverty in the second half of the show.

tweet -- guest: everyone is going to put their face on this issue to video where they come from -- depending on where they come from. it is not about chris christie, it is not about president obama. chris christie has prided inself in being able to play new jersey politics better than anybody in the sandbox right now. aura that he is underscore himself, that he has been very proud of, that he has invited critics to come after him, i do get is coming back to haunt him. when he paints himself as the big them -- the victim, as for me, i was blindsided when he related, lied to, instead of i'm going to find out what happened, i would to find out why this happened both wire those traffic lanes closed?

we did not hear any of that during the press conference. ofst: given the number issues that maria has brought back to chris christie, that tells us the challenge that he faces. one of the reasons there is such --alue for interparty interparty value for taking over , dan isis has your authority to look over everything to and they have subpoena power, and whether it is republicans or democrats for they love getting in there to see what they can do. guest: no one has come up with thetan --, with anything substantial on the so- called candles for the president -- scandals for the president.

featuredk being in the washington post. a lot of attention about what he said about president bush and obama, and also vice president biden. it also said this about testifying before congress -- " sitting atquently,, that wind is typical of the exit lights are on the tip of my time frequently, sitting at that witness table, the exit lines were on the tip of my tongue" -- guest: let me go back a step.

i room for how angry i was at the press secretary for george w. bush who wrote a kiss and tell book about the president while he was still in office. i feel the exact same way about this. they are far less concerned about getting the truth, then ir good quip for the next morning. another quote --

guest: you mean president obama? host: president obama, and bush. guest: that is been one of the big criticisms for president obama. i do wish that he would spend more time reaching across the, and actually having and developing those kind of relationships. it is what it is. he has talked about this himself, he is talked about how he wants to focus on his family life, his two girls come first for him, their young, so they need a lot of time. as a mother, i understand that. these are criticisms that, in the book, that at the end of the day, i do not think they diminish what this president has accomplished, both domestically, as well as internationally. on givingalso focuses the president and a lot of kudos on the decisions he has made on the world stage. gotten -- hillary

clinton and a lot of kudos on how she handled herself and her leadership style. the one thing that i don't agree with, and the white house is come out to defend, is where he ends up with joe biden. i think joe biden has been an face, and heblic is served the country well. that is what we have seen, the one big pushback from this white house in terms of that book. host: democrat like, good morning. line, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm going to get back to chris christie. i do not know how all of this is going to wash out. but when president obama took kind of consider myself a moderate. after george w. bush, if you

dictionary under democrat, liberal, i was there. aorge bush could barely put sentence together. i also read an article yesterday on yahoo! about 14 potential gop candidates. i cannot remember all of them, ,ut i look at chris christie and i think that i think he is -- and i think that he is a moderate. republican will win the next election unless he is a moderate. both reagan and robbie -- romney both ran as democrats at a certain point in their life. republicans don't get rid

the extremearty, or part of their party, i do not think there could have much luck. host: thank you for the call. guest: i agree. --t is great, the tea party the republicans have to say, if you want to put up candidates against them, republicans -- against incumbent republicans, and it is hard for your own party to go up against you, because of the distractions and expenditures to defend against another republican or another democrat. they're going specifically out there to defeat tea party renegades in some of these primaries. host: let me ask you about been set for my candidate for senate in nebraska. he is featured in the latest edition of the national of you. here is an ad on the air number

grasso -- in nebraska. ♪ >> that's it. to cureto ensure -- everything in washington. to move the capital to nebraska. we have to choose, the most conservative voice to send washington. host: why is he getting so much attention? he's not even the nominee. guest: whoever wins the nomination is going to be a pickup for the gop. he has gotten -- guest: he is good looking. guest: he has gotten the support

of the tea party national groups, and is building a consensus among the traditional republicans. if he wins this thing, that may be the model that other republicans look for. probably some of the democrats with a good turn it upside down, to look forward to bring some sort of cohesion to it otherwise splintered party. i think he could be the nominee, and the senator. guest: i want to go back to wanting the caller said about christie. he would not be happy to be called a moderate. he has tried to push back against that, because things seem -- being portrayed as a in terms ofa death winning the presidential primary. white house officials are

upset about the book, but they should use it as an opportunity to examine the deeper questions about how foreign policy got so damaged and what they can do to repair it. fair criticisms? tost: you couldn't do good -- you could do well to look at seee tell-all books, and what it says about the processes. this white house is not obsessed with what is in this book. they are focused on making sure ith making sure they acknowledged by gain's service, and then they're going to move on. what is coming out in this book is that president obama campaigned on, and has taken us toward ending the war in iraq,

ending the war in afghanistan. ofbe sure that the standing this country on the world stage, which was so damaged after george w. bush, actually improves. that is exactly what it has done. guest: i think that a lot of ohorting about the employer -- imperial presidency, where so much of the executive branch has been concentrated in the president is a very long-term problem. host: that will be coming up tomorrow, as the u.s. supreme court hears the arguments on the recess appointments. you will of a jazz of friday on c-span radio to hear out the judges questioned both sides. we will -- we were told that mitch mcconnell will be inside the court. -- from oneof from tweet -- wers, i ta

last call for our roundtable. good morning. i hope that both heller gotten an chris christie get knocked out of the nominations. if they do not, i will not have vote. guesthost: why? caller: if christie is not a bully, he is a smart alec. and you are good is just another barack obama, and we are as close to communism as we need to be. thet: this is reflective of dissatisfaction of what we have with washington. the inability that we've received to get anything done. cores itler understo

with the people who are seen as front runners and their parties. me to hearable to about the bureau presidency when this president has tried to do so much, and has tried to work with republicans in congress. we have some daylight mitch mcconnell saying that his very first priority was to make sure that president obama was a one term president, that is not somebody focused on making sure we actually solve this country's problem's. if you have to look at a way to go around progress, jackson get things done that are -- to things done that are good for the american people -- it goes from dislike about all the way to disdain. i think everybody knows that. guest: he has tried to work with

and time again, and a slap them -- and then slap to the face time and again. host: we will leave it there. , and rich galen, thank you for being with us. the war on poverty will be our focus coming up next. and melissaer boteach sit down to talk about wendy's to happen next -- what needs to happen next. back in a moment. ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] 4]

>> c-span, we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you. when you in the room at congressional hearing, white house event, ratings and conferences, and offering complete apple to gavel coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service. we are c-span, created 35 years ago, and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. jackson drew a sharp line between states rights and secession. or nullification because secession was the obvious consequence of vilification. he drew sharp line, why? , that the remembered

british were out there, and they were waiting to pick the american states off one by one. jackson thought the world was a dangerous place. gethat danger was of the dealt personally, and as president he felt that it's usually. the separation of the states would open the united states up for attacks, threats, coercion, by foreign powers, starting with british. history tvamerican this weekend about on c-span3 -- this weekend, on c-span3. bigger is one of the court cases that could transform the communications s ector.

the biggest thing that is going aereonge our space is the case. we could potentially see the spring court take this up and find out one way or another if the services legal -- if the surface is legal under copyright wellaw. very dynamic chairman, he is not a very -- afraid to come out swinging. >> surveillance reform. 2013 was a big year for surveillance go with all of the snowden links, and we are told that the leaks will keep coming. obama will review his review s recommendations.

find out where he stands on some of these issues. on theay night communicators, at eight eastern on c-span two -- 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. >> washington journal continues. presidentears after johnson declared a war of property, we want to take a look at this issue, and where we have been, and where we are going. thank you for coming with us -- for being with us. president, andhe marco rubio from florida, delivered comments on capitol hill. using that venue to doug about where we need to go in the future. your senator rubio. >> our current president and his liberal allies, would be

proposing to spend more on these programs, and raise the minimum wage to $10.10. this is your solution to what the president has called defining issue of his time? minimum wage is all full and well, but $10 is not the richard reid. -- the american dream. this helps google deal of property, but not emerge from poverty. the only solution that will achieve meaningful and lasting result is to provide those that are stuck in low-paying jobs with the real opportunity to move up to better paying jobs. we have to focus on policies that help our country create those jobs, and policies that help people overcome the obstacles between them and those jobs.

partly accomplished neither of those two things, but we can achieve those two goals. of the single we greatest engine of upper nobility in human history at our disposal. host: let's use those words as a jumping off point. i will begin with you. on poverty has gone on longer than vietnam, the iraq war, and afghanistan combined. it has been about as successful. if you use the standard poverty measures, it has barely touched the rates in this country. we will talk about a turn of measures -- alternative measures and what they mean. it has not done much good. we have spent $6 trillion. the government ran 126 poverty programs at a cost of almost $1 trillion. we're simply not doing enough to

get people out of poverty. we are enabling people to live -- we are not enabling people to live a fully independent life. host: melissa boteach, your take. guest: let's jump into those alternative statistics. when you take into account the programs put in place, a new study shows that the poverty rate fell from 26% in the 1960's to 16% today. that is real progress. we cannot pat ourselves on the back. we have american still living in poverty. we need to build upon what is working. i would say it is not the war on poverty that has failed, it is the economy. we have seen rising inequality. one in four jobs does not pay enough for a family of four. host: in terms of the role of the government, jim says that the only jobs the government can make our government jobs.

how do you afford to have a company hire someone that does not have the skills? guest: investments in infrastructure -- there was an experiment during the recovery act called the emergency fund. you had the government providing separate jobs to private companies and nonprofits. local enterprises were the ones creating the jobs. he were subsidized by the government to place unemployed people into those positions. host: let me share with you from the new york times. it maps it out. you can drill down into specific communities or cities. this is a look across the nation. as you can see, a vast majority of the poverty remains in the south and south west. why? guest: i certainly think part of that is racial disparity. there are also high levels of immigration.

most immigrants come with almost nothing. they do tend to rise. they initially come in are very poor. a lot of those areas have not seen the economic growth that other areas have seen. the problem with government created jobs is that the government has to the money from somewhere to create those jobs. that means the government is taking money out of the economy, either by borrowing or by taxing. the government that they -- the money that they borrow or is not available to the private sector. the jobs created by the and the ones that they have tax to spend the money. guest: i think that one of the most important things we should focus on is economic growth. the federal government plays a key role in that. they enable conditions and create a level playing field. the government has a key role to play in economic growth. i think that is one of the most important things. economic growth should be shared. right now, we have growth. in the south, there is a one in

four child poverty rate in texas. it is unshared. one of the things progressives focus on is economic growth. we also have to make sure that growth reaches the middle class. some of the solutions are things like pre-k and reading the little moan wage. -- raising the minimum wage. guest: we want to create jobs the low and middle income people can access. to say that people are poor, that is vastly oversimplified. nobody is poor because someone else got rich. we want to create more generalized prosperity, so everyone can share and not worry about whether someone at the top makes or than someone at the bottom. if we doubled someone's income tomorrow, it would be a wonderful thing. -- cap anddata disparity would grow larger. one of the problems is that we have four years of economic growth.

the poverty rate has remained flat. this is the second time on record that this is happened. the first time was just prior to the great recession. if you have economic growth but poverty is not falling, there is a problem. the gains are concentrating in the top one percent. the middle-class and struggling families are not seeing the fruits of those gains. the public policies are exacerbating them. host: our focus is poverty in america. our guest will be with us until the top of the hour. you can call us at the number on your screen. host: michael sent in this tweet. the government should offer retraining programs to all displaced workers. what is poverty in america? the labor department is looking at individuals who earn less than 11,000 dollars -- $11,490

per year. 510erty is defined as $15, per year for two people. that is based on an outdated record. i think that everybody, regardless, agrees that it is not a good measure. the trouble is, what is a good alternative? there have been studies out there showing that you can use alternative measures to reverse engineer. poverty was higher in the past . studies also show that the program with the most impact on reducing poverty is the earned income tax credit. that has had very little impact. the problem has been the tax cuts that reduced the lowest tax rate for low income workers. will not get any

argument from me about the earned income tax credit. it is a wonderful program. you are taking people who are on the brink of poverty and giving them supplements to with them above. some of the other programs address people who have no earnings or who are facing the deepest barriers. that is a proposition were programs like temporary assistance for needy families are targeted. that is one of the reasons -- government has shrunk considerably. assistancen income for needy families fall by 30% over the past, since 1996. we have seen higher unemployment and lower wages. ableprogram has not been to be responsive to recessions or rising poverty ever since 1996. guest: we have seen other programs increase, starting

under bush and president obama. we have seen dramatic increases in spending. 126 upper programs were run by nine agencies. the federal government spent $700 billion -- another 300 billion from state and local governments. to still have 50% of the population in poverty means we are not getting much bang for our buck. guest: i disagree. you mentioned how flawed our program is. you are not taking those programs into account. if you look at the supplemental nutrition assistance program, food aid to poor families, it has lifted 5 million people out of poverty. medicaid has reduced infant mortality rate. nutrition assistance has and did not nutrition. early education programs have enabled americans to become better education -- educated and compete in the global economy. there has been enormous bang for the buck.

guest: we have done some good things. we have eliminated malnutrition among the poor. the bang for your buck is even less than other programs. there is no improvement in health quality as a result of people being on medicaid according to a study in oregon. you do notws that if decrease emergency room attendants, medicaid does not seem to provide much benefit at all. we have done much better by increasing economic growth and fighting discrimination and dealing with wage supplication. guest: one of the best ways to get out of poverty is a good job. that is an important complement -- the safety net is an important complement. people will fall on hard times and recessions. half of americans will experience a spill of poverty. the safety net is for those people who are poor. it is for all of us.

half of us will fall and poverty. host: michael tanner is a senior fellow at the cato institute in washington. ach is with the center for american progress. jim has this week. when the education system turns out those who are unskilled and uneducated and illiterate, you cannot expect them to prosper. let's hear from jesse from michigan on the democratic line. that morning. caller: good morning. i think that you guys have your priorities mixed up. you will never eliminate problems as long as you have -- all of the money that we are spending. how much of that will help the poor people? billionaires calling --

billion and that nonsense. you never see poverty. problemsway to solve -- host: thank you for the call. let me use his point. he talked about numbers. the war on poverty from the early 1960's where we are today. you can see the intersection of per capita income and the party weight. -- rate. it reached its next this in 1968. you can see that it has increased substantially. the rate of poverty from the early 1970's to today has stayed relatively the same. guest: that is right. the standard poverty rate shows that there has been little decline.

if you use the alternative policy measures, between 1964 spending most of the kicked in. we do not get a great deal of bang for our buck in the increase in spending every year. if we do manage to make poverty more tolerable, i doubt these programs do that, that should be our goal. we should not treat poor people like they are our pets. people need to be fully actualized. i need to have goals and dreams. they want to be everything they can be. they want to be out of poverty. they do not want to be dependent on government. if we think that we have succeeded because we have given them eight and we can keep them on the dole forever, that is a failure. host: we heard from marco rubio. here's what the president said last week on the 15th -- the 50th anniversary of johnson speech.

promise zones20 across the country, the first being announced in san antonio, the choctaw nation, and rural kentucky. [video clip] the uniontate of address last year, i announced to the commitment to announce more communities like these. citizensral, tribal -- are dedicated to turn things around. we challenge that. we said if you can demonstrate the ability and the will to launch an all encompassing approach to reducing poverty and expanding opportunity, we will help you get the resources to do it. we will take resources from programs that are arty doing that and concentrate them. we will make sure our agencies are working more effectively. we will put in talent to help you plan. we will also hold you accountable and measure your progress. real stuff that

is making a difference in mindset of young people, then we will be there. your country will help you remake your community on behalf of your kids, family by family. we call these communities promise zones. their neighborhoods where we will help local efforts to meet one of national poll. a child scores and might should be determined not by the zip, airborne in, but the strength of their work ethic and dreams. host: that was the president this past thursday. we expect to hear more in his state of the union address on tuesday, january 28. summarize what he said. there was this from robert in atlanta. there are so many variables and moving parts in evaluating this issue in family structure. i am a progressive, but raising the minimum wage does not deal

with these core issues. it seems to me that facilitating the lower classes ability and desire to maintain family structure and the importance of education will go a long way towards addressing these issues. guest: i think there are a number of important factors. family structure matters. education matter levels. to respond to the president's initiative, people who were born into pockets of poverty have lower education and health outcomes. similarly, people with the same income and middle class areas -- the initiative is critically important. it addresses these areas of poverty. it is a complement to the national programs that we already have in place. break down silos across the private sector and public sector. we need to tackle those problems for kids growing up in these areas of poverty.

i think that the point is important. there are a number of variables that go into it. not one solar bullet solution. host: raising the minimum wage. what do you think? guest: raising the minimum wage will not do a great deal. only about five percent of people earning minimum wage are people who have -- you are breadwinners. pricing outg with the entry-level jobs. we're going to take the people who are doing the first step on the ladder. we will take away that first rung. only about three percent of people working full-time are below the poverty level. getting people any job is the first step to getting out of poverty. we cannot take a bottom run away. we cannot force people to pay or contribute. guest: i have to respond to them.

there have been a number of studies that have shown that a bumper the minimum wage will take away these low-wage jobs. there have been a number of studies showing county by county didn't -- the different minimum wages. it shows little to no effect on the availability of work. that is the first point. the second point is that by not raising the minimum wage, we ask taxpayers to subsidize making ends meet. when you have the income tax credit, you have nutrition assistance. you have studies that show the fast food trends. fast food workers in this country, many of whom work full-time at the minimum wage, get $7 billion as a safety net. by not raising the minimum wage, we ask taxpayers to subsidize that. i would also say that we should go back to the idea that the poverty line is not our countries marker of hardship. in threeabout one

people on the financial brink. they are one paycheck or one medical bill, one broken down car away from poverty. that is aware a lot of these minimum-wage workers are. they are still struggling paycheck to paycheck. raising the minimum wage will do not just enough to get them out of poverty, but it will help them on the brink. we cannot ignore them and they conversations on poverty. host: bolus is one of the authors on this report. toward poverty in america. it is titled "the war on poverty, then and now." you can also log onto the cato website to get more on their perspective on poverty issues in this country. roberto is joining us from san diego. republican mine. caller: hi there. i would just like to ask melissa question. , if we go to how

mcdonald's or taco bell, we get a minimum-wage job, we also get free health care, free food stamps, free breakfast at school for our kids. what is the incentive for us to do better? we do not have to do anything. we do more than our kids getting out of college who have debt. you at all those things that. what is my incentive to do better? -- the government also pays part of your rent. guest: there are a couple of points. you are not living the high life if you are in poverty. most low income people are not getting a lot of these benefits. less than one in four people gets then. west than one in seven people gets childcare help. there is a myth that there is this whole suite of per -- programs that they are getting. low income parents are struggling with stresses in their life.

they have higher rates of not being able to put food on the table. worse outcomes. their children are exposed to parental stress. that limits their ability to do well in school. it is not the highlife living a minimum-wage job. i think that the safety net is supposed to be an opportunity to lessen some of the hardship. the ultimate goal, with most workers, is to get the education that they need to get a high skill job. the problem is that it is difficult when you work full-time or have kids to go back to school and get that pathway to the middle class. most people in a minimum-wage job, it is not there and cold to stay there. if we cut poverty, to go to marco rubio's comments, yes, we need to provide pathways to get people to high skill jobs. there will always be a swap of people, people caring for parents, people cleaning

buildings that we work in, people selling us close in macy's, who were on the brink. how do we improve their quality? minimum wage is not the only answer. of the benefits that people get, the fact is that if you get the seven most common benefits, housing is probably the outlier. only about one quarter of people get housing. people do get food stamps and medicaid. the benefits exceed those of the minimum-wage job in 35 states. the eight most generous states have more than a $20 per hour job. people are not getting that minimum-wage first job. if you do, you tend to move up. they get a raise within a year. i do not want to take that minimum-wage job away from them. there is one study out there that shows that between new jersey and pennsylvania and the counties on the border, there

was no difference. if you look at the combined literature, 85% of studies show that there is a job loss. why not have a $100 per hour minimum wage? we know that is silly. guest: that is an extreme example. no one is asking for a $100 minimum wage. it's a minimum-wage today were what were back in 1968, it would be over $10 per hour. we have allowed it to erode because we have failed to address the situation. no one is calling for a $100 per hour minimum wage. guest: at some level, wages exceed the productivity that you cannot do a job. have a lot we do not of movie theaters or self-serve gas stations. those jobs, the productivity was not worth the additional cost. host: on c-span radio, heard around the nation, our guests are michael tanner and melissa

boteach. let me share you -- let me share with you one of these tweets. he is a limo driver. he says the poverty line is a blurred line. at times, i can only -- hardly survive. let me go to something you said on your website. you said $16 trillion on the war on poverty. the counter argument is had we not spent that money, the poverty rate would have increased substantially. guest: sure. we cannot know. we cannot say if we had not spent this money, someone would have fallen into poverty. we do know that the overwhelming studies show that there is a difference between the -- webility of benefits know that giving birth to a child when you're not married is a route into poverty. you are five times more likely to be poor than if you wait until you're married. we have created behaviors. how we have discouraged -- have

we discouraged work ethic? high school dropouts -- if you drop out of high school, your four times more likely to be poor than if you complete college. those behavioral changes are what we need to ask about. host: we will go to sean in baltimore. thank you for waiting. caller: i am trying to get people to realize something that is important. makehange that we need to is that we need to provide a better infrastructure for what we need. we need the resources to make it happen. china is taking a lot of our jobs. we need to make new ones. we have to do that. china is not allowing people to use the internet. they do not have the same control over what they do. we need to see what it is that

they trying to prevent their people from doing. we could propel our jobs. parents do not have their time to keep up with kids. if you have a home and the teacher says they are child -- my way to do it -- host: you are both shaking your heads. guest: i think that the caller makes a number of important points. the first is the way the economy has changed in the past few years. you've seen the outsourcing of good jobs. you've have seen the decline in manufacturing. i think that he is making an important point about the rise of income inequality over the last 50 years and the decline of good work great the socially for lesser skilled men. i want to reaffirm his point and also say that there are things that we can do about it. we need to invest in skills and job training. we need to invest in the kinds of job creation that is going to put people on a pathway to the

middle class. we need to think about pre-k and early education. we should start early to prepare the next generation of workers. i also want to go to the point that he made about the time that parents spend with kids. how that affects things. today, we are alongside maria shriver. we're releasing the third report on the nation pushing back on the economic brink. one of the key points is that it used to be that only 25% of families relied on mothers as breadwinners. today it is two thirds. you have the family model of a breadwinner dad and him stay at home mom is a thing of the past. the workplaces have failed to keep up with this change. parents have less and less time to be with kids. we're the only industrialized nation with no paid family leave. we do not have paid sick leave. we're and under budgeted patchwork.

guest: i agree with a lot of what she said. the fact is that the old model where you could drop out of high school and get a job is gone. forever. it is not coming back. it is not something we should aspire to. we have lost a lot of textile jobs. very few people say to remove the day when their child could aspire to something like that. we need to change the skills. we could talk about early childhood education. there is no evidence of long-lasting benefits from headstart. those fade quickly if there are any. you cannot invest the money. basically, there is little evidence. if there is evidence to suggest that we should do something, that means overcoming the teachers union and putting children first. giving parents more control to get out of failing school.

give parents more control of their child's education. we are not providing the education for the type of job sold support the economy. guest: the research is indisputable. it shows that every dollar in early childhood education yields seven dollars. to your point on repairing workers, i think there are a lot of good solutions. we have put out a report on apprenticeships. it is a great model for young people who are transitioning from high school to vocations to be able to get the training and skills they need to enter a middle or high wage job. there are innovative models out there. there are solutions. one of the things that we want to let people know is that poverty is not a distractible problem that we cannot find solutions to. host: there is this point. raise wages and stop outsourcing. pick one. join the conversation.

gordon is joining us on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say that i am one of the one point three million lost my unemployment compensation benefits. -- i was on unemployment and took a job for 19 weeks. i came up one week short of getting additional benefits. i lost my extension that i was on. now i have been watching the senate arguing back and forth. i agree with some of the amendments that the republicans have. they should be voted on. everything in that senate should be voted on. it seems like the democrats are in a giving and the republicans are not giving. it looks at a daycare, not a senate. host: how are you surviving without unemployment benefits? what was the average check they received? caller: $240 per week.

now, i live on the food that i had stopped i'll do my refrigerator. i have a disabled mother living with me. host: thank you for the call. guest: i think he makes one of the most important points that you can make. and a voice face on the ridiculousness of the situation. you had 1.3 million people in the situation. to extendver failed unemployment benefits. the job market is this week. it is not only good for workers, but the economy. it increases demand. i cannot understand why we have not yet extended unemployment insurance. guest: the future is very uncertain today. democrats and republicans have not worked out a plan to pay for it. even if it passes the senate, it faces an unlikely future in the house red guest: even if weeks extend them, there will be a cut off at some point.

some people are going to run out of their unemployment benefits. we're not talking about doing all way with him, we are talking about cutting them back to the traditional level that is paid for in the past. economists agree that unemployment benefits extend the duration that unemployment benefits extend the duration the people are unemployed and raise the unemployment level. most people agree it is somewhere between one point and 1.5 points. clearly, it does lead to some increase in unemployment. guest: part of that has to do with the fact that it workers get discouraged and drop out. when people stopped registering then all ofor work, a sudden, unemployment rates or lower. in reality, people's lives are worse. that is not a fair argument. to say that people do not want to work. guest: i am not saying that people don't want to work.

they have tracked the number of hours per day that people put into jobs. when you first lose your job, there's a great deal that goes into it. then it drops out. it ramps back up again. thatieve paul johnson said the prospect of being hung in the morning -- the closer people get their unemployment benefits expiring, the more effort they put into job search. it is human nature. host: some more numbers on the table. from the new york times, they map harvard he in america. it is available on time. in holes county, mississippi, the population is about 7100. the poverty rate is 70%. in clay county, there is a poverty rate of 42%. how do you get out of half the population in poverty? guest: we have spent enormous amounts of money in those counties.

this is an excellent article by kevin williams talking about are $9,000 there that we spend on antipoverty programs. we are not able to deal with that trip will we need to do is have a fundamental behavioral change. we need to deal with job creation in those areas. that is ultimately the long-term solution. not throwing more money. they have 106 antipoverty programs. host: this viewer says poverty reared its ugly head when jobs were offshore. we need tariffs to protect american workers from cheap foreign labor. guest: trade is obviously one important factor in job creation. i do not think the answers to cut off -- close off trade. or put high tariffs on. we do need to talk about how we can improve the skills of

american workers to compete and how we can improve the quality of jobs at our disposal. i also want to respond to your previous point. i think that, you know, i want to reiterate that the war on poverty did not fail. it is the economy that has failed. in a poll, nearly two thirds of americans understood that the reason we have seen increased poverty rates, is because of the economy. it is not because people all of a sudden got access to nutrition assistance and decided not to work for it we have more than three workers for every job at -- opening available. these are structural issues that we have to address. not cutting people off of assistance. host: one other tweet on the social aspect. james says stop locking up the nonviolent blackmails for use in drugs. guest: absolutely. we can agree. guest: making products more

expensive will not help poor people. it will not help poor people who need to buy shirts. doing aon drugs is terrible disservice to people who live in the inner-city. one of the reasons there is high out of wedlock birthrate is it is tough to find eligible marriageable men. their in jail. parole in jail or on because of the war on drugs. there are disparities in the way that we treat people. we lock them up if they are black and have marijuana. we do not do that with whites. ands a terrible disservice a great creator of poverty. guest: we can agree. host: michael tanner and melissa another 25 minutes and our discussion on the war on poverty. where are we going and where have we been?

tom in connecticut on the republican line. caller: one of the issues i have is the inaccuracy of the data that people use to talk about poverty and income inequality. one of michael's colleagues at cato has written extensively on this. the data is flawed. first of all, they do not count transfer payments. they do not count in-kind payments. second, with respect to the hours worked, if you look at the lowest quintile versus the highest quintile, the difference is a factor of four. second, or third, the investment gains for the middle class have been taken out of the tech sommers. that is the basis of all the data. all of the money that goes into 401(k)s or personal savings does not show up in the tax numbers. it does not show up and income. the other issue is the money spent on the federal government is $1 trillion.

most of it goes to government workers themselves foreign ministry to cost. guest: there are a couple of things that he said that i want to respond to. i agree with you that the poverty measure does not take into account a lot of those transfers of in-kind payments. as a point i was try to make earlier. when you do count those, the poverty rate has fallen significantly. we have reduced enormous hardship. on the point about going to the administrative payments, people get the largest low income programs. almost 90% are going directly to low income and poor people. not to administrative costs. it is a better rate than most private care -- charities. that is a myth that we're spending all this money on government coffers. in reality, nutritional assistance and tax credits to working families and medical assistants are reaching low income people. host: we will go to sherry next from birmingham, alabama.

caller: good morning. basically, you have left the element -- elephant in the room and alabama. it is racism. theme knock down some of points. i do not have adequate let children. i am highly educated. i have a masters from stanford. yet, the last employer i worked for, which was a community college, use my experience and education and to file false claims in the title three, part b program. guy used that for a white who had neither of those. he is making $50,000 per year. i was making $30,000 per year. the reason they can do that is because the white guy had his

, applyoth of our bosses for a job that he was unqualified for. will my employer did was tell the federal government that i was in charge of their network. i was paid on a part-time basis. i was working full-time, doing excellent work, securing their network. james's incentive? he has no certifications. his mom knew the president. how would you fix that? guest: i think that the colors touching on a number of important issues. she is talking about the differential in wages between men and women and people of different races.

i mentioned the report that is being released today. one of the key points is that women, the average woman makes $.77 per dollar for a man. it is about $.64 for african-american women. if we were to close that wage gap, it would cut the poverty rate for working women in half trillion.uld add $.5 we need to close the gender gap and racial disparity. host: this tweet and related e-mail. the $2 trillion underground economy has doubled over the last four years. it would rank ninth as a world economy. and aelated e-mail, global economy, what can the government do to incentivize corporations to pay living wages and above? what are the practical steps to end of wage stagnation? guest: one of the things we can do is try to take the burden off

of corporations. we now have the new health care law that is going to impose a mandate on corporations to buy health insurance starting next year. they postponed it for one year. the cost of health insurance is about five dollars per way. you hire a minimum wage employee, you know how to pay another $5,000 for that employee. that is going to make you much less likely to give that employer raids or to hire them in the first place. you can always pay the penalty, which is $2000. that is still a substantial increase. these are penalties on low waged romps. we want to keep people in low-wage jobs so they can rise to higher wage jobs. guest: there are a couple things the government can do. they have enormous leverage as a contractor. someone who is a contractor -- we have in place laws to say that if you want a contract, you

have to pay a decent wage or living wage. we can improve that by adding government spending and using leverage as a purchaser of goods to try to increase the wages of private companies. another thing i want to respond to is that most countries in the developed world offer health insurance. it makes them more productive workers. it makes for healthier workers. expandsrdable care act medicaid and enables a lot of people in low-wage jobs to get government-subsidized health insurance. it takes the burden off of employers. that is important point underscore. host: this was in the washington post this last week. his a former bush speechwriter. he says that liberals have a difference between using social mobility as a unifying national goal an employee economic inequality as a political cudg el.

a preference for the work of markets and civil society can be used as an excuse for inaction. michael tanner? guest: i absolutely believe that we want to do everything we can and our society to enable people to escape poverty. i do not want people to live better in poverty. i want everybody to get out of poverty. one every human being to have the ability to live fully realized, self-actualized life. that comes primarily from work and achieving everything in their power to achieve. you do not get that from the government program. you get that from a job. is tomber one priority get people jobs and better education. they can get those jobs created in the society. that means creating a tax and regulatory environment that is conducive to creating jobs. not simply throwing more money at existing federal poverty programs. host: our next colors from

silver spring, maryland. democratic line. caller: my question is for michael tanner. the republican on your panel. guest: i am not a republican. let me make that clear. caller: sorry about that. youuestion is, though, if do not spend all of those trillions of dollars on the 126 government programs, how will people -- more people would be in poverty? guest: that is a good question. we do not have good data on that. it is impossible to deal with a counterfactual. you could simply take that money out of people's income and say so many more people would drop below the poverty line. you also do not know how behavioral change. people change their behavior in ways that would enable them to get a job or to graduate school or to not have children out of wedlock?

ways that would ultimately allow them to get out of harvard in the long term. we need to look the on to simply this point in time and say what is the best long-term solution that people down the road we'll have that they can get out of poverty? that is now we have seen so far from the war on poverty programs. host: this is a response that i want to share with you. your answer to everything involves government spending? guest: i want to respond to the previous caller. then i wore spots this question. a columbia university study shows that the poverty rate would be double what it is right now if we did not provide a safety net. there have been studies that have shown that there are behavioral -- very little behavioral effects. there may be some. to the caller who just asked about government programs, we are talking about with policy. there is a role for business and individuals on the nonprofit sector. today, at putting out the shriver report, yes, there

are government solutions. there are also things that businesses can do to improve. not just paying benefits, but the environment in which workers can advance. we have an index that was developed called the thrive index. it is a series of questions for employers. they can ask themselves, most answers would cost very little increased spending. it will make things easier for low-wage workers. do they offer predictable schedules? are they giving workers the flex ability to make a personal phone call if they have caretaking responsibilities? are they things that they can offer that will enable workers to balance their family responsibilities with work responsibilities? in terms of the personal and, i think progressives can agree that when people take personal responsibility to support kids or get an education, the questions that i am racing are what -- when everyone does the

right thing, there will still be one in four jobs below the poverty level. what do we do about the structural issues? we should have the opportunity to get into that. host: from new hampshire, judy on the independent line. caller: thank you. i have a couple of comments. i am a small business person. i employ six people. if minimum wage goes up that high, i will have to close my business. host: what is your business? caller: two very small hair salons. they make minimum wage. they are also capable of making a commission if they -- succeed. we have the ambition to improve themselves. the comment that melissa made about being able to use the telephone, my staff hangs on their telephones. i think the american society walks around with a phone hanging on their neck. anyway, one of the things i would like to see is, instead of

raising minimum wage, what are you lower the cost of goods? it is hard for people to afford electricity and buy food. i think that my small staff, who does make minimum wage and does not have the ambition to make more money, they and do not -- they do not improve their income. they buy lunches until half of the away. we see the staff smoke cigarettes. they also have two cups of coffee from dunkin' donuts. we have figured out that they spend almost $5,000 per year on their coffee and doughnuts. -- i'm not even counting sorry, coffee and cigarettes. that does not count their lunches. host: we only have a few units left. thank you much. guest: i would quickly like to say, that is the problem. if you have $15 to spend on labor, you can hire two people at $15. or one person

one person will lose their job out of the two. are we really better off to increase unemployment and raise the wages of the other? to go back, in terms of the columbia university study, we debate the methodology of that. the big thing is that it shows that the change was brought by the earned income tax credit. that goes back to the reagan era. it essentially is a tax based wage supplement. it lowers the lowest level of taxes. it was a bush proposal that was made permanent by president obama. it is not about food stamps and medicaid and housing vouchers and 120 odd federal programs. guest: it is an incredible anti-poverty program. it should be bipartisan. unfortunately, most of the

attacks have come from conservatives. it is an amazing per gram -- program that has raised people out of poverty. these will also work in families, not just families on welfare. we have a safety net that does not just cover people who are poor, but more geared to working families who have wages that are too low to make mincemeat. to the colors point, everybody has somebody that they know. it could be a story of someone that they have seen use fraud. we have a story of hundreds of the other kinds of story. the story of the single mom who is working three jobs and struggling to keep her head above water. she is in a domestic violence situation. the story of someone who got kicked off of their benefits after years in the system. the story of people who are working hard and playing by the rules and doing everything they can. they're not able to keep their heads above water in this economy. we do not want to lead this by anecdote. we want to take personal stories into account and make sure that their voices are being heard and

that we are being responsive to situation, and also look at the macro level. woman fromding to a new hampshire, i had to close my business. if your business model requires you to pay starvation wages, it should not be existing. let's go to eric in temple hills, maryland. caller: good morning. host: get off the piano and make your comment. caller: thank you very much. i find it hard to believe that your guests, as intelligent as they are, and the callers calling in are unwilling to see how institutional the federal reserve's monetary policies are not causing these problems. you have a cause and you have consequences. he seemed to be focusing on the consequences. it is old news that the federal reserve's monetary policy is

increasing the money supply. it is causing downward pressure on the bond market and causing investors to move money to their asset market. it has caused profit in asset owners and by maintaining and sustaining unemployment, you do not have to worry about overheating the economy. all this talk about the problems of unemployment and poverty, some of this could be solved by bringing the federal reserve under congressional oversight. i would like to hear your guests address those concerns. host: michael tanner, we will start with you. janet yellen will take over at the end of the month, replacing ben bernanke. guest: i think that the dual mandate is a big problem. the fed's job is to ensure stable monetary supply. we should not pump money into the economy to deal with the unemployment issue. that is going to lead to huge problems on the road. it is treating an asset bubble.

i think that that will create huge problems on the road. measure, ihe larger am not a monetary economist and i will have to leave those questions others. guest: i am not a monetary economist. host: next is marianne from pennsylvania. what is the poverty rate in your part of the state? caller: i do not know the party rate. i am sure it is high. speak to the line about people who work in minimum wage jobs. i am one of those people. i went back to college when i was 40. that was the end of the 1990's. i graduated in 1995. i had two majors and a teaching certificate. i studied my brains out for six years. when i moved here, no jobs at all. wage.nnot live on minimum i am a minimum wage worker at a dollar store. i live on social security also.

i am an older person. neither one of those things gets me by. sexism andabout nepotism. it is rampant in this country. there is nothing wrong with people working at textile mills. some people cannot do something beyond that. we make beautiful textiles in this country. now all we have is from china. we're getting garbage in. i see it all the time. are my points. thank you very much for listening to me. host: thank you for the call. melissa? guest: i think she makes an important point. you have one in three women in this country who are in poverty or teetering on its break. you have about 42 million women and 28 million children who depend on them. when you invest in women and you address the sexism that the caller has noted, you will see not just women and families do better, you will see the overall

economy do better. as i mentioned earlier, we work to close the gender age gap. i urge people to go to shriver report and check out the new report that we have. we have solutions for business and individuals and government. there are things that people can do to address these issues in their community. thank you for that question. host: going back to the issue of the fed, it is the root of the problem. if you do not understand the economics and the role of the federal reserve. guest: i will leave that to the monetary economists. guest: i think it is important that the fed has the mandate of trying to address unemployment. without that, unemployment would be even worse than it is now. guest: stable monetary supply should be the primary goal. that is ultimately the key. inflation is the cruelest tactic on the floor. guest: we have very low inflation. guest: the potential down the road is there. host: one final point on the fed

from bill. he says that the fed will never be audited. he says that if the market found out that the digital money was fake, the market and the dollar would crash. let's go to john from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: thanks for having me. i want to disagree with the judge -- gentlemen under program. we do need to bring back manufacturing jobs from china overseas. from mexico and canada. i think that there has been a war with the middle class. there is class war. they just announced that members of congress, they are all millionaires now. the whole thing. there are callers calling up with points about the tax code and jobs leaving. i agree that you do not need to

pay somebody a mcdonald's $10 per hour. by letting the illegal immigrants in here and lowering jobs -- i used to work for a pool company making $18 per hour. when the cheap labor came in, those jobs that got paid $18 for, that you are lucky to get $10. host: thank you for the call. a report indicates that the majority of congress for the first time is worth $1 million or more. we will get a response from each guest. thank you for the call. guest: we produce more manufactured goods in this country than we ever have. it is not the manufacturing is going away, it is that the jobs are going away. these jobs simply are low productivity jobs. we cannot afford to pay those wages for that low productivity. economists talk about this.

james might ben the best lawnmower in the world. there is a reason he does not know his own lawn. his skills are much better utilized in other ways. ofdo not want to pay a bunch people to punch pegboard on computers. programshem to design to build new computers and raise the level of society. -- not that there in manual labor jobs. let the chinese do that. host: and melissa boteach? guest: i want to enforce with the caller said. of touch witht the reality of many americans. we have one in seven americans living in poverty. one in three are on the financial brink. if we raise the minimum wage, and increased tax credits for working families, make childcare available, we could cut poverty by 26% in the next 10 years.

we have solutions. i would urge folks to get involved in the communities and address this problem. the problem is solvable. cato.org.cap.org and our two guests, thank you very much for being with us. we will continue the conversation tomorrow morning as we do every morning at 7:00 eastern. theelle will be joining us, former defense undersecretary. she will discuss what is next in afghanistan and the latest in the book by bob gates. will also turn our attention to health issues as the affordable care act is implemented. it's impact on the economy. and the federal public defender program has offered free legal counsel to poor people marched in court cases. havewing number of cases been cut because of sequestration. we will learn more about that tomorrow morning on the washington journal.

"newsmakers" is coming up next. thank you for joining us. have a great week. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] next on c-span, "newsmakers" with steny hoyer. after that, chris christie addressing reporters last week about his administration's involvement in an orchestrated traffic jam in fort lee. then tom daschle on the challenges with advancing bipartisanship in congress. later, eric